So we continued with our who's who of dirt racing with Dirt Late Model drivers Josh Richards, Dennis "Rambo" Franklin, Chub Frank, and Rick Eckert, then we switched over to the 410 Sprint Cars with Jason Johnson. Which is why front-wheel drive cars tend to understeer, especially on corner exits. Hit the gas hard a few times to see how easy wheelspin is, but don't get out of control. Renegades, Pro 4, Thunder Bombers, Front Wheel Drive, Blue Ridge Outlaw Late Models, Next Generation Kids Series, Pure Stock V8. must remain in the OEM location. P5007030 Camshaft 6 hp Increase, 2 hp with 2001 H.O. It has been condensed and clarified.). Be sure to check and see what's legal. Keep the rear tires underneath you, don't spin the rear tires. I am only familiar with how to change the camber on the Mopar cars. If you are in a Super you can help loosen the car up with the throttle. They know something. Sometimes you can spin the tires and make it worse, and then sometimes you can spin them and that friction opens it back up. From then on, unless it is watered again, the track will begin to dry out and go through several phases of moisture content. No transmission coolers in driver compartment. Stiffening the rear bar does trick the car into rotation, but it also can result in a car that is not as evenly balanced as one that uses bars at both ends. While it is highly unlikely that any FWD teams would be able to obtain this ideal distribution (unless the rules required a very heavy minimum weight), that's the direction they should be headed. I run with a touring series called the Texas ProSedans and we run only asphalt. The goal with stiffening the rear bar is to transfer weight to the outside as the car enters a corner. Increase the Ackermann to 1 degree in 15 degrees of steering. Some guys like to lower the left-side rods, but others hate that. Properly executed trail-braking shifts weight from the rear of the car to the front, increasing grip on turn-in. There are two main types of diffs used in front-wheel drive applications: gear and plate. The camber/toe comments are dead-on though. Im going to slant my advice more toward stock, production front-wheel drive cars than specialized, highly modified front-wheel drive race cars (last-gen WC, WTCC, BTCC, etc.). A FWD oval track race car, like most other oval track or road racing cars, should be as near 50%-50% front-to-rear weight distribution as possible. These are exceptions and won't be addressed here. It locks up that wheel just a little bit, and that kicks the tail of the car around. Small gains in mechanical grip can provide substantial gains in lap times). Front wheel drive racecars for sale McDowell is currently both an active driver as well as running his own driving school, where he spends a lot of time helping young racers to find more success from the driver's seat. If your shop is saying different then take your car to another shop. BATTERY/STARTER: One 12-volt battery only. This does two things: It lowers the rear moment center and raises the car's CG. Rear kickers required. Disconnect the front and stiffen the crap out of the rear has always been the mantra for front-wheel drive set up, and for good reason: It workskinda. No weight jacks, modifications, racing components, aftermarket or homemade tractions devices allowed. Buy a good fire suit and a "S" Rated Helmet and Go Racing. You just have to be a bit more cautious. This is a place to have fun and fellowship about front wheel drive racing, Tips-tricks-new builds-questions-ect. Engineered exclusively for Neon, this camshaft was developed for power while maintaining reliability and idle quality. May use solid engine mounts or safety chains. Usually a trip around the autowreckers will turn up something that looks stock. NO FOR SALE POSTS. We can now begin to soften the setup somewhat and change the RF spring to an 800-pound (rated) spring or remove the RF full spring rubber and replace it with a half rubber. And yes, you can make a FWD car oversteer all day long if you set it up right. Generally speaking it will feel better. You should look to spend a small amount of money on a car because you will be removing everything out of it. BeamNG.drive drift build download. In our journey through a full day of dirt track racing at "Anywhere Speedway," we have purposely left out a number of setup variables such as fifth and sixth coil adjustments, gear changes, birdcage indexing, rear spring placement (front or rear of the axle tube), the decision to clamp or not to clamp, and others. Change the RF spring to a 750-pound spring and the RR to a 175-pound spring. > If the more toe out is added, is it done on the left or right side? All glass, exterior lights, chrome/plastic trim and hood insulation must be removed. No more than 5 degrees camber on any wheel. Eckert: Normally, dirt race tracks always gets slicker, so you are usually working to tighten your car up. Honda Civic stick shift tranny gear ratios,,, from the honda civic forum,,,, http://www.hondacivicforum.com/m_45588/tm.htm, Transmission Name Engine Counter Part 1st Gear 2nd Gear 3rd Gear 4th Gear 5th Gear Reverse Final Drive, L3 88-91 HF 3.250 1.650 1.033 0.823 0.694 2.954 (3.250 Cali) 3.880, L3 88-91 DX 3.250 1.894 1.259 0.937 0.771 3.153 3.880, L3 88-91 Si 3.250 1.894 1.259 0.937 0.771 3.153 4.25, L3 JDM Integra ZXi 3.250 1.894 1.346 1.033 0.771 3.153 4.437, L3 JDM DOHC ZC 3.250 1.944 1.250 0.909 0.878 3.153 3.880, L3 USDM D16A1 Integra 3.181 1.944 1.347 1.033 0.823 3.153 4.216, http://www.hondacivicforum.com/m_45186/tm.htm, http://www.hondacivicforum.com/m_45184/tm.htm, D13A2 1.3 8V SOHC 2bbl Carb 1342 60hp@5500rpm 73tq@3500rpm 87 Civic/CRX 1.3, D15A2 1.5 8V SOHC 2bbl Carb 1488 76hp@6000rpm 84tq@3500rpm 87 Civic/CRX 1.5, D15A2 1.5 8V SOHC 2bbl Carb 1488 58hp@4500rpm 80tq@2500rpm 87 Civic/CRX HF, D15A3 1.5 8V SOHC PGM-FI 1488 91hp@5500rpm 93tq@4500rpm 87 Civic/CRX Si, D15B1 1.5 8V SOHC PGM-FI 1493 70hp@5500rpm 83tq@3000rpm 88-?? I've been very pleased with camber plates run sideways for castor. A top Neon team can help with their setup here. Once the track has hardened, it will quickly continue to change toward black and then to slick. Driver must be sealed off from track, engine, transmission and fuel cell/tank. It is indeed a "real" race car doing real racing. Those days of running sideways are over. Hardened and more packed as the surface begins to dry out: 1.3 to 1.5 g's (still good corner speed while losing a little grip off the corner). 3. The front springs will always be the stiffest. We won't change the setup at this point in time, but the driver will need to think more about throttle control coming off the corners to prevent wheel spin. Reduce the air pressure in the tires by 2 pounds all around. Smooth driving is important now as any complete loss of grip in the front or rear tires will cause a great increase in the lap times. The "truest" stock car racing in the USA, Front Wheel Drive racing features everyday folks taking FW Ok, so now you have a car with a roll cage, seat, belts, fuel cell and the suspension has been set. And physics haven't changed since. Running camber in that range will allow the tire to lay completely flat in the corner, giving it the biggest contact patch and the maximum amount of grip. My understanding was the rear toe-in steered better into the corner much like the Honda Passive rear steering, as the suspension loads up, the inside rear tire toes in. OEM steel unaltered floor pan only. HS: We can now soften the right-side springs, or pull out all of the spring rubbers. for Dodge Neon discussions on performance improvements http://forums.neons.org/viewforum.php?f=8, http://forums.neons.org/viewforum.php?f=220&start=100, http://crx.honda-perf.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6937, http://crx.honda-perf.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=4. DOOR BARS: Minimum three horizontal door bars on driver side and two horizontal door bars on passenger side. Kit includes 1 hub and 1 bearing. thick or thin ones? No racing, mud or snow tires. Bending the tube will result in a better fit, but buying a kit is sometimes cheaper. I wish I could find the discussion again. You just have to learn how to slow down and go faster. This is a good time to get used to the bumps and the bank on the curves. . But in the Crate cars the corners just don't come at you as quick, so you've got more time to think and maneuver. No turbo charged, super charged, rotary engines, or engines utilizing variable cam-timing. His was setup so most pressure was on the driver side of the vehicle and the lesser pressure on the passenger side, this was to help pitch it. Dear Honda Experts and including Mr. Holt. Wet, sloppy, and rough: 1.6 to 1.7 g's (peak g's but very difficult for the driver to maintain a good line). The goal is to try to keep the car loaded so it doesn't get free. What happens if you gain camber up front while turning due to added casterthe entire body rolls more, and your rear outside tire is now leaning over even more (assuming you didn't make any changes out back). 10. Suspension set is always a compromise with every setting, so it really depends on the driver "feel" for the given setup. You've just got to drive it and hang on. The RF = 350; RR = 200; LR = 200 (375 pounds swing arm). But we know that there is a lot more to racing than just having a great car. No mirrors. Thanks for all those mopar part #s and neon links, now you gave out all my secrets, but thats ok the more neons the better. What I'm curious about is what front spring rates are recommended. The air pressure in your tires will change with heat. All cars must remain strictly OEM. This also applies to other makes of cars with similar rear suspensions. do not allow excessive lightening of the chassis/body,,like your class does. There are four bolts that hold the spindle to the axle. to the fact that my car gets around the track faster thanks to Nick Holt. The front wheels do everything, turning, braking, and accelerating whilst the majority of the car's weight is over the front wheels. These Mopar Performance Coil Springs will add a new dimension to your cars handling and performance. Be sure to check your toe often and learn to adjust it. This is a pretty sophisticated FWD set up story and conversation but I did have one question. Track may require mufflers (IMCA recommended). Front wheel drive is the wave of the future. ! Most conversations about front-wheel drive suspension engineering revolve around camber and shock adjustments, with little to no mention of caster. Includes all mounting hardware. All doors must be securely welded or bolted. That's all for part 1. Given these constraints, and if you were asked to build the IDeal Honda,,. What Is Front-Wheel Drive? No re-caps, softening, conditioning, siping or grooving allowed. ) Look for a car that has been taken care of and not rusted out. Read the circuit. And if you depend on the throttle too much and you get into a slick condition, now you are really in trouble because you're just spinning the tires and not getting anywhere. Thank you. Be sure to look under the car and check for rust. Same with go-karts with solid rear axles, theyll lift a wheel around a corner. Because youre asking them to take that side load, and you add the accelerative force.. Slightly increased Ackermann and small amounts of rear steer (LR tire coming forward) will help the car turn through the middle. I wouldn'twant anything that tail happy on a road course as it does change directions rapidly. A low CG number for a dirt car is around 17-18 inches off the ground. You just have to try to get through the turn without killing all of your speed. Note: To learn more about racing in the Pony or FWD Pure Stock divisions, you can join our Mentorship Program by contacting the Spartan Speedway office at (517) 244-1042. Given I was never exposed to anything other than sloppy econo-boxes, (nothing wrong with econo-boxes), I had a strong bias based on things I believed to be true, but never experienced firsthand. If you run a cell you can keep less fuel in the car and the foam will keep it in check to allow the fuel pump to keep a good supply of fuel to the engine. Photography Credit: Rupert Berrington. Heres what ACP has to say about how to drive the shit out of our FWD car: (Full disclosure: The following are ACPs statements as he ran through them with me over the phone. This term is widely used when describing a 4-link dirt modified right front shock or asphalt cars front shocks. 6. Tires are the most important part of any car! Tires must be inside of body. They are crazy! By 19. More rebound shifts. All engine components must be OEM unaltered for year, make and model of car used. Frankly, the advice that was given regarding front-to-rear weight distribution and spring selection for a FWD car is questionable at best. You can only buy 1 car per night. Essential floor careRobot vacuums, stick vacuums, high-performance mops and more are up to 35% off during this Target deal. There is only one way to stop a severe pushy or loose car, and that is to lift off the throttle. It's good to get tips from other guys and see what they do, but to mimic their setup and think you are going to have the same results can often be a mistake. We could raise the rear ride height an inch or so to be ready if the track begins to dry out some and affect bite off the corner. This can vary a little depending on the car and the tires being used, plus the driver preferences. Remove the entire interior, you don't want to leave anything that could catch fire when you start welding. Late Model (LM): A similar situation would apply to the LM car. Camber is the angle at which the top of the tire is tilted in or out. Toe is the angle that the tires have toward each other. One common mistake is watching the fastest guy on the track and saying, "If I had his setup, I would be that fast too." Must use minimum 1.50-inch O.D. Ok, so now you have a car with a roll cage, seat, belts, fuel cell and the suspension has been set. Or maybe you should just practice your trail-braking. are you allowed locked or positraction final drives? For Springport, you can install the commonly available 1.06 transfer gears and run fast. Do a tune up on the engine and check the compression. Eckert: If your car is too free in the corners, what you've got to do is back your corner up onto the straightaway. The Panhard bar, mounted on the left side of the chassis, should be at heights of 12 inches left and 8 inches right. Which Model, engine type, trans type and Year HONDA would you build and WHY? Maybe 2-4 degrees of negative camber for the RR. I think there are a lot of drivers who say they dont like racing front-wheel drive cars, but I think thats mainly because they have never driven a properly set up one. All of the action happens up front. But if you have tried getting out of the throttle early and. Tire selection should include a little more siping to help dissipate heat, as the tires will begin to spin slightly coming off the corners. Plan ahead Watch the circuit. Use the data you have for your tyres or use the table above to get you going. We will take more air out of the tires, but not enough to cause them to roll over. They need to be rolling with not a lot of slippage, especially when the track is slick. What this means is you either want a softer swaybar or no swaybar at all in the front. Nobody ever looks at the ENTIRE CAR. We will examine some physical rules that deal with chassis dynamics so we can arrange the setup to meet the conditions. Now weve seen a bit of what the driver can do to help negate some of the front-wheel drive disadvantages, but what can the car do to help in return? Fuel lines through driver compartment must be steel. Additionally, as a large percentage of front-wheel-drive cars these days are turbocharged, going to throttle early helps the car build boost sooner, further helping exit speed out of the corner. This style of driving has a couple of benefits. Raise the rear ride height one more inch, move weight up and to the right in the car, and soften all of the shocks. Richards: The biggest thing is don't ride around in the slick under caution so the tire won't cool down and glaze over. 17. All forward and reverse gears must be operational. for some back ground Info, with the setup Mr. Maurice Randall posted they won track championships and many features at a tracks that had about of these 30 cars every night, and the competition was close. Zero rear steer is essential now because our dirt car will handle much like an asphalt car. CT: How do you set up a car for a track you've never been to before? 0kodX9Z3Bi2nO6OQTe5bVJSzO5kwBxYM7bL09OpJq1vrj58DBe72aytO2biUT45z. Or if you are a three-wheel braking, you go to four-wheel brake. After all your very life may depend on how well the roll cage is welded together. Basics of driving front wheel drive on dirt and a couple tips to get you up to speed and hopefully out of trouble. Fire retardant neck brace, gloves and shoes required. WARNING: This is a big web page, about 180 posts, over 600K. 2023 Motorsport Marketing. Another simple, yet effective change that can be done to both street cars and track cars alike is increasing negative camber on the front wheels. Most cars have some rust, you just don't want one that has rust HOLES. The problem becomes if you try to on 45 degrees. So. ACP: So with left-foot braking, is basically keeping the throttle wide open, and dragging the brake with your left foot to make it work a little like the hand brake. (maybe not CC thunder), Mr Holt has been helping 4 cyl cars go faster since I first met him in the mid 70s, While I would be the first to say there is more than one way to skin a cat, I can attest. Smog pump, catalytic converter and air conditioning compressor may be removed. No racing, mud or snow tires. There's not much you can do for it then, and the traction that you have is all that you're going to get. (If you are interested, you can learn more at www.DirtSchool.com. That is probably why rear steer (left tire forward) is sometimes so helpful. What else happens when the body rolls more? The last alignment trick used to get a front-wheel drive car to play nice is rear toe. It would not be fair to those teams I have worked with in the past to divulge specific set up information, so I will explain using generic concepts. Also All NEON racers should install the thicker ACR front hub listed In the catalog and sold by Dodge which is used in SCCA racing. and instal a racing chip in the computor, and run 2% Nitro in the fuel. Stock gas tanks are not designed to keep the fuel in place during a night of racing. 2. All the weights on the nose, all the pulling happens at the nose, and all the steering happens at the nose. So normally, as the racetrack gets slippery you add front brake. Setup-wise, the tendency is to tighten your race car up. Here in the Midwest many tracks and the IMCA have created Pure stock classes based on the 4 cyl FWD sedans that are plentiful and cheap. I am NO expert on FWD racing chassis setrups,,,,mainly just a messanger. Down South even when they dry up and blow off, they still aren't slick because they are so abrasive. For that reason, it is very important to lessen the amount of steering input as early in the corner as possible before you start goingto throttle, which will give the tire a bit more grip to work with for acceleration out of the corner. The rear springs don't need to be stiff at all since they are carrying very little weight. They call him NeonWill - (cue the music!!). Step 1 - Decide your target hot pressure. No aftermarket racing heads. The studs bite better when pushed into the ice with camber vs scratching across it. When carving around a cone, does your car resemble a dog lifting its hind leg to a fire hydrant? HS: With the track going to full dry and slick conditions, we need to get more radical in our setup. The disclaimer here (before I get totally ripped on the GRM forums) is that there are many ways to skin a cat when it comes to car setupfar more than I have space here to go into. Very moist but graded and compacted: 1.5 to 1.6 g's (the best the track will be all day and very fast through the turns). But McDowell and Hughes covered the topic so well we decided to move on to other areas that most often seem to trip up dirt drivers. Welcome to the internet home of Front Wheel Drive Circle Track Racing Podcast show is being worked on daily! There are several adjustments that can be made to assist in loosening up a front-wheel drive car and countering the terminal understeer they commonly exhibit. Suddenly, youre asking the front tires to not only take the lateral loads but to pull you forward. No matter how much we try to keep that unloaded, inside-front tire planted, however, itll still have less grip than the outside, loaded tire. HS: We could maintain the previous setup as the track begins to smooth out, but it will keep a considerable amount of grip. Find a suitable car. 6-8 degrees of negative camber generally works well in the RF. Also I adjusted the springpreloadby jacking up the front and just taking the slack out of coilovers, is this a good starting point? Because when you are counter-steered there really is no traction. Cannot be licensed in any other division and must be at least 14 years old. The key, again, is to be sure to make changes based on your track conditions related to your type of car. Dry slick, a condition in which the track has lost considerable moisture and is now very dry and slick with little grip: 0.7 to 0.9 g's (The cars are now very slow in getting into and through the turns, and traction under power is very low. This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies. If the arrows going straight and to the left, toward the edge of the circle, thats a turning left force, thats a g-force to the left. Obviously, changing your wheel spacing, taking stagger out of the race car and just trying to get your car more balanced where it is not trying to turn so much on its own. Easy Steps to build a Pony or F.W.D. So it is not the same thing for everybody. Robb was like, I still get comments on this article. This is where you need to check the tires after you run and move the camber and toe until the tires are the same temperature all the way across. So basically, its right up our alley. Details. Black slick, a condition in which the track still has enough moisture to keep the material packed, but has hardened and is taking rubber: 1.1 to 1.3 g's (becoming difficult entering and turning in the middle of the turns). ): The V.I.N. FRONT WHEEL DRIVE RULES. By using all of the available space on the track, cars can travel in a straighter line and travel faster before reaching the limits of grip. We can see how it is possible to experience a high 1.7 g's all the way down to a very low 0.7 g's in a single day. But as you turn that steering wheel, you have to pull the throttle up in order to accommodate that string, thats pulling the pedal back. The setup may look like this: LF = 350; RF = 325; LR = 185; RR = 150 (double the rear springs for the swing arm car); Panhard bar at 12 inches left. > Front Sway bars, do you use them? If the rear is loose enough to corner well, it is generally too loose for best time in transitions. Once in a corner, the forces on the car are great enough to flex the suspension and substantially decrease the amount of camber on the wheel. Its just more efficient for them to produce. With the rear setfor some toe, I don't remember but think it was around 1/16". Ever since this class was started, many of the faster teams have been looking for ways to stiffen the axle itself. And unfortunately, that's going to slow you down. I do not have the space or time to fully explain roll couple distribution theory here, but I do explain it in detail in my suspension seminars, complete with class notes. Raise the moveable weight up and to the right side as much as possible for a 50-50 percent side-to-side weight distribution. Check back here often for more tips and advice for . The track has now dried up and the black is mostly gone. We could continue to move weight up and to the right in the car to raise the CG about 1 inch and further decrease the left-side weight percentage. Pumping up the rear rubber and hitting the front tires with more negative camber can boost your cars cornering abilities, but dont forget to modify that variable in the drivers seat. Again tires are the most important part of the car. Evo is a little different, and STI is a little different, but they all fundamentally drive like FWD.. Probably (because most FWD stuff sucks to begin with). 2. What the car came withis 1400k/800lbs in front which seems too stiff. On the flipside, if you remove too much front wheel rate, you can have issues with body roll to the point where you lose contact patch due to the camber changeresulting in less front traction rather than more. A more sideways driving style is sometimes helpful for mostly aerodynamic reasons. Franklin: If you race both Supers and Crates, when you get back down to the Crates it does seem to be easier because your straightaway speeds are so much less, and it just seems like it takes forever to get to the corner. You can run a lot of toe in a fwd and a quarter inch there might help as well. If your tires are pointed toward each other then they are toed in and visa versa. In the case of the Mopar cars, there is really only one ratio to run at Spartan. All ignition components must be unaltered, OEM and match year, make and model of car used. Meets SCCA Club rules. For each type of car, we will set up for the six conditions listed above. You've got to come out of the gas earlier and slow down for the corners. CT: So how do you drive a dry/slick track? Is it fastest? This is where a limited-slip differential comes into play. Have fun guys no personal attacks or any kind of spam also. You can overdrive it a little bit to compensate. I forget where I ran upon the discussion but there is some kind of analysis that was done at some point to see why he might have thought this And it had to do with the tire's "trail" and where it fell in relation to the contact patch causing a disconnect in steering feel as grip is exceeded. GAUGES/ELECTRONICS: 12 volt ignition system only. A commonly used technique drivers use to induce the car into getting entry rotation is trail-braking: decreasing, or trailing off, brake pressure as the car approaches the apex of the corner. Mr. Holt has been helping 4 cyl cars go faster since I first met him in the mid 70s. What makes these various conditions so hard on our setups is that the g-forces are changing along with the declining availability of grip as the track begins to dry out and go slick. For my fwd street stud tire class ice racers I've morphed into adding castor and leaving the camber stock. The sooner the car rotates, the sooner the throttle can be applied. But generally, I've found the following to work good when coming in after a hot practice session: Hmm Maurice might want to read up on roll couple distribution theory. But if you have tried getting out of the throttle early and it still isn't helping, you can get out way early and then get back on the gas as you go through the corner. Spring split at the front also has less affect and has more influence on entry. Keep the air pressure high. LF = 350; RF = 325; LR = 200 (350 pounds swing arm); RR = 175 (325 pounds swing arm). Since Im going to be driving the new Honda Civic Type R in a few days, I asked for advice, and he basically took me through six principles: Comrie-Picard had a lot to say explaining what all that means, and Ive transcribed all the tips I was able to get out of him after I let ACP, as hes known, tell me about Car Saviors, the TV show hes trying to get traction with where he teams up with Hoonigans Britan Scotto to restore and reimagine weird old garbage cars and then drift the hell out of them. Pictured is a complete PROTHANE performance urethane suspension bushing kit for a Honda Civic (on the left) and their stiffer than stock rubber rear sway bar bushings (on the right). Upgrade base model vehicles to ACR/RT level, and upgrade ACR/RT models to higher levels. The rear ride height would be set as low as possible, as this would raise the rear moment center and lower the CG to reduce the rear roll angle versus the front roll angle to help balance the setup. As you push that pedal down to the ground, thats an effort to try to keep you in that friction circle. But you have still got to do what you are comfortable with. Caster will never add negative camber on turn in, because steering axis inclination takes camber away. We think we can help a little bit with that too. Near the bottom of the front struts are two large bolts. Johnson: The key to driving in the dry/slick is patience.

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